The Roman pizzaiolo's words between his desire to introduce the capital's crispy round and supplì to the world, the importance of adapting and some advice to young people.
Jacopo Mercuro is the mastermind (and the arm) behind 180 grammi, the pizzeria in Centocelle that over the years has been the talk of the town, winning awards, recognition, the Roman public but not only. I caught up with him by phone a few days ago on the eve of his departure for Australia, where he is touring these hours with some dinners between Byron Bay and Sydney.
Hi Jacopo, how are you? Are you ready for the trip?
Hi! I'm preparing psychologically to be 20 hours in the air. It's going to be challenging, we're doing two stopovers-Rome, Istanbul, Malaysia, Sydney.
Not exactly around the corner huh... How did the planned events come about? Are you going alone?
We got a call from these Roman guys from Australia, who have a restaurant called Cicerone. They were very much fans of 180 grammi, they are our customers who when they pass through Rome come to see us, so they asked us to go. We didn't think twice about it, because we have been traveling around the world for a few years now to bring 180 grammi, and more generally Roman pizza. We like to bring out our culture, because there is little Roman pizza around the world anyway; I'll give you an example: without going too far, we did an event in Paris where we brought supplì, and the people who invited us suggested we call it arancino rosso-despite the French derivation of the term. So, regardless of the 180-grammi brand, we like to try to spread the Roman gastronomic culture declined with pizza and its fried foods.
With me comes Vittorio, my partner with the take-out restaurant in the San Paolo area of Rome. We're doing this Australian mini-tour with stops in Byron Bay and Sydney, and then we'll also touch other destinations where we won't be cooking, however, but we'll be exploring a little bit of the area with the guys from Cicerone who were pleased to let us discover a little bit of the country. So we're doing a dinner with Daniela Maiorano in Byron Bay and then two evenings at Cicerone in Sydney.
You mentioned to me that you have been moving around the world for some time now....
Yes, this is a project that starts a little bit far back. We have always been lucky enough to have a lot of customers from abroad, even though the restaurant is in the suburbs in Rome. Many of them are people in the industry who then invited us out. For example, we did an event in Copenhagen by the guys from Barabba, one in Paris with the group Big Mama. Then with Roscioli New York we did a block party and we will come back to do that in the summer. So we're moving around a little bit and on top of that a bunch of dates have jammed in this year, Australia, New York, we have an event in the Maldives, a course in Buenos Aires. We're a bit of a rock band on world tour, I'll bring a different collaborator each time to give them some experience outside as well. Because at the end of the day, yes, we bring our product, but mostly we learn from the travels and the different realities that we relate to.
Over the years, having been fortunate enough to travel extensively abroad, I have realized that I have always come back with something extra from other cultures. Even just getting to a place where you don't have your own cuisine, your own customs, your own products. It's nice to always put yourself back in the game a little bit each time. Once in New York I arrived and there was a kitchen with only fry tops (a griddle typically used for cooking hamburgers ed) and we had to adapt with those for cooking risotto for supplì. I have always been self-taught in my work, so getting out of the comfort zone has helped me to always learn something new.
In the trips you've taken, is there any ingredient that you've taken home or that has particularly impressed you?
More than the specific ingredient, I took home a lot of ideas about the approach to work, the way of group and company. For example, I was crazy about the Danish model for work organization and I reproduced it from 180 grammi, because I am not only an entrepreneur but I know what it is like to be inside a kitchen, so from Copenhagen I brought with me the search for well-being for my employees, and I reduced the working hours and inserted the two days off per week. In the United States, I admire their level of structuring with the various managers within the same restaurant, with the ability for employees to request one-on-one discussion meetings. In Paris I was able to see a little bit of the Big Mama model, which is a restaurant giant.
Very interesting, going back to the product instead, when you travel do you shop locally or do you bring your own ingredients?
We like to adjust to what we find, we hardly ask for a certain flour or a certain ingredient. For example, in the U.S. they have products with much higher product fat percentages; I realized this once when we had to make a chantilly with the recipe we always use and on the first try it came out basically a mineral water. We really like to work with the local product.
From a technological point of view, so maybe ovens, instrumentation have you found something different?
We are so globalized now that everything comes in everywhere. But even there I enjoy adapting. Because maybe you find a wood-fired oven, which we don't use, but even there you adapt and take home a new knowledge.
What do you expect from Australia?
Although I was fortunate enough to have parents who passed on to me a passion for travel (I was a traveler since childhood), Australia was a place I saw as so far away that I had no idea it could become a destination, so I never had time to create a particular expectation for myself. My work, however, leads me to have the opportunity to put myself out there in a place so far away. In fact I will face the 20-hour flight with a sense of serenity, because upon arrival it will be all a surprise.
Instead back in Rome, do you have any other projects in the works? Any new things?
180 grammi is always evolving, we did a little rebranding recently however the idea is to always have one room with the restaurant in Centocelle. We've had a lot of requests in Rome but in our philosophy we don't have expansion in mind.
Instead, the takeout project 180 grammi's, is a leaner, more standardizable project that will expand.
We have an upcoming opening -- in late spring in a more central area of Rome, compared to the San Paolo point. We are also looking around abroad to see if we can do something different, but these are still very embryonic projects and ideas.
Last two questions, then I'll let you go and close the case. After a few years of experience what motivates you to continue, to look for new ideas?
Maybe compared to before I do more hours mentally because I wake up, I think about 180 grammi. I go to sleep and I think of 180 grammi, that has become my life and I'm driven by the fact that I've had a little bit of luck-luck to have been self-taught. And there are some new discoveries for me as well. For example, now we tried the new project on 180-grammi soft ice cream. We bought this ice cream machine because we had this fixation on soft ice cream that we were seeing in New York. So basically the motivation I find just from the fact that so many things are a discovery. Today I stopped by the guys who were doing some testing with the ice cream precisely, we were like kids in front of the monster factory with the cooking in the oven.
What would you recommend to a young guy who wants to open a pizzeria or be a pizza maker?
First of all, he has to have a strong motivation, it has to be something that he feels inside because whether it's cooking or pizzeria, it's still a very heavy field. So there really has to be a pull that you feel because that's the only way you can soften that kind of heaviness. And then completely clear your head. Because I see today that young guys open with the thought that they want to get to be featured in a certain guide, to have an article in a certain masthead. And that leads a little bit to losing sight of the product. Absurdly, those who open today the first thing they do, before they even think about what kind of product they want to do, what kind of identity their project will have, without maybe even a clear idea about the name of the restaurant, they already know who they're going to call as a press officer, what guides they want to be in, and that a little bit in my opinion detaches from reality. I'm often asked 'how did you get certain accolades? To get into that guidebook?' I always answer the same thing - 'we never called anybody, things come if you work centered, if you work well and make an identity product'.
Instead, if you immediately go looking for things that can come after 10 to 15 years in the business, first of all you live badly because it has become a complicated world now, because there are so many other dynamics behind it, and then you lose sight of the product. We kind of forgot that we basically feed the people who sit at our tables, and that's a big problem. So the advice is really to center yourself on your project.
Contact
Headquarters:
Via Genazzano, 32 | 00177 Rome
phone +39 347 999 89 83
For takeout:
SanPaolo
Via Efeso, 29, 00146 Rome RM
Centocelle
Via Tor de' Schiavi, 53, 00172 Rome RM
The website of 180 grammi Pizzeria Romana
